STOWE PA – A crowd of about 200 Pottsgrove School District residents – some of them angry, some sympathetic, some frustrated, some bewildered – turned out Tuesday (Jan. 10, 2012) at West Pottsgrove Elementary School in Stowe to tell administrators and school directors they were as yet unconvinced that grade-level education centers were in the best interests of students, parents, taxpayers, or the district itself.
In an emotionally charged meeting, several speakers repeated similar themes on a controversial proposal to restructure Pottsgrove’s elementaries from three neighborhood schools that currently house grades K-5, to ones that group all K-2 students in two buildings and all 3-5 students in a third.
- They disliked plans for busing children, saying the ride times were too long.
- They questioned whether student achievement would increase as officials predicted.
- But perhaps most importantly, at least as acknowledged by some board members toward the night’s end, they said the district had so far failed to provide sufficient proof or documentation of why and how its elementary system needed to change so significantly.
“I don’t have any data, and I don’t have any numbers. You’ve got to come up with the data to prove your points,” said district resident Kellie Bean, who summarized much of the angst expressed to the school board.
Administrators did indeed attempt to answer some concerns raised at the board’s December meeting, when what is being called “the centers approach” to balance student populations at the elementaries was promoted by Superintendent Dr. Bradley Landis. Director of Education and Assessment Todd Davies offered a 20-minute presentation with statistics and observations meant to shed more light on the subject, but many in the audience scoffed at them or characterized them as lacking substance.
- The district has now made available copies of Davies’ presentation. Download it as an Adobe Acrobat document, here; see it as a video at Pottsgrove’s Vimeo account, here.
“The presentation, though well meaning, in our minds didn’t address many of the issues,” opposition organizer Rick Rabinowitz observed.
- Watch a video (above) of three of those who spoke at the meeting, or see it at The Post’s YouTube channel.
As the meeting wore on, tempers flared and the courtesies that seemed to have been extended by both directors and audience members seemed to have run out. The meeting degenerated into a shouting match, and was abruptly ended by board President Michael Neiffer. See the video (below) created by reporter Evan Brandt of The (Pottstown PA) Mercury newspaper and published there Wednesday (Jan. 11):
Related (to Pottsgrove School District redistricting):
- ‘Grove Residents Want Proof Ed Centers Will Succeed
- ‘The Blues’ May Await Pottsgrove’s School Board Tonight
- Both Sides In Pottsgrove Redistricting Head To Facebook
- Pottsgrove Crowd Vocal In Opposing Educational Centers
- Advocate: Pottsgrove Centers ‘Best Access’ To Resources
- Debate Over Pottsgrove Redistricting Gets Started Tuesday
- No Matter What Plan Pottsgrove Adopts, Buses Ready
- Redistricting Info ‘Slanted,’ Pottsgrove Volunteers Charge
- Pottsgrove Redistrict Discussions Quietly Move Ahead
- In Pottsgrove, Redistricting Study Work Gets Started
- Pottsgrove Sets Dates For Redistrict Committee Work
- As Expected, Interest A’Plenty In Pottsgrove Redistricting
- Landis Calls For Pottsgrove Redistricting Volunteers
- Touchy Pottsgrove Redistricting Now Being Considered
I wish I was able to attend last night to offer my support to the school board. They have a tough decision to make and I stand behind them in whatever they decide.
I want to point out that busing our children is really not that long compared with surrounding districts. Think about a child in Owen J or child in NY City (who have pretty awesome schools). They ride for 45 min to an hour or more! Many rural districts have to cover a much larger area than Pottsgrove and I don’t see those parents complaining.
We have it good in Pottsgrove and we know it; we have been spoiled and we have to come to grips that the district needs to make changes (whatever they are) to better educate our children and to save money. I appreciate everything the board is doing.
I think as parents we have the responsibility to show our children that change is okay and that it will happen throughout all of their life. Also, as a friend stated “It is good to be passionate about something; but that needs to be balanced with politenesses. I believe many in the district are forgetting their manners; remember that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar”.
Danielle – as someone who was there last night, this was a really good dialogue until late in the evening when people began to get tired and hungry. Busing is important as we cannot manage to pick up the kids now on time… not worried about the travel time…. If a scheduled pick up is at 7:11 am, yet kids do not get picked up until 7:45, then are on a bus for 25 minutes, how does now having more routes or stops help?
If people ask once for more information, then do not get it, and ask again for that information, frustrations are going to appear.
The lack of information or even the partial information they presented was below even the modest expectations of the crowd and even laughable at times.
All of the speakers really made good points and some rightfully chastized the board on the poor presentation, all were very respectfull until late into the evening.
If you wanted to show your support, you should have attended last night.. it may have changed your mind, it certainly did not sway anyone to be in favor of the centers.
Please do not critisize all opposition by the actions you have heard and conclusion you have drawn, as a district we all have a right to know what is being done and how. Then fustration shown by a few, like I have stated, came at the end of a long night where no answers were provided to support the move to centers
Hi Greg – No I won’t change my mind; I have done research and found no pro’s for the current situation that would want to make me fight the idea of centers.
As for last night I do a ton of volunteer work and last night was preparation and partnering with local businesses for an upcoming large community project. Please don’t speak about my time and what I should have done unless you know.
I only stated that I think “individuals” in Pottsgrove should be nicer, I stated no names and I have a right to say what I think too, so please stop singling me out because I disagree with you.
I have never once commented about anyone on this site or others. But I find it funny that others feel the need to comment about me.
I too do not want my taxes raised and if a centers approach allows for the same or better education with allocating funds more efficiently and appropriately then I am all for it.
The current elementary school model will certainly raise our taxes; this has been noted in the budget portions of the school board meetings and other areas. So anyone who wants to pick up any extra taxes that will be charged to me in the case that the current model stays in place please say so now.
I to was unable to attend last night…but I am still flabbergasted at the administration’s inability to provide facts. If this disrupting our kids and moving them to a Center’s type school system…is really a move that would provide a higher quality of education then show us these facts. If it will save money…show us these facts. As to Danielle’s comments… If I wanted my kids to go to Owen J or NYC…then I would have bought a home there. But I didn’t. I moved to this school district a little over 5 years ago and chose my home here after researching the school’s my kids would attend. I chose Ringing Rocks & Pottsgrove because of the short bus rides and the “small town” approach to education. I like being able to know just about every family in my child’s school. I am concerned that switching to the Center’s approach will lower my property value…which will in turn lower my property taxes…which would decrease the amount of money the school receives.
What then?
Bottom line…show me why this idea will be better for my kids! I have done my own research and I am only finding reasons why we should NOT go to a Center’s approach.
Danielle.. I am responding to you because you want to be a point person for the Pro Centers and gave a backhanded compliment to the ones against without knowing the context
I am dubious to the fact that this saves money. I cannot find how the school will save money with this approach other than the ability to cut teachers with less backlash. We will still be maintaining the same facilities, the same staff per school, the only thing we are doing is moving kids, not resources
There is also NO research to support going to a Center approach and No Research on NOT going to a centers approach as far as any benefits to the educational experiences for the children.
We need to do what is best for getting the best education for the money and not try something the majority does not want.
The board failed to prove that this will save money and if that is their incentive, they need to answer how this will better the education and save money.
I myself have to juggle a lot of commitments to my time but I would not critique people who attended if I did not attend. With that said, even the people who were for the centers issued their support and I am thankful that they attended.
Hi Danielle,
Sorry that you were not able to attend last night but I do want to let you know that there will be more meetings before a decision will be made. At the very least, there will be meetings on January 24th and February 24th. Hopefully you and many others can attend one or both of those meetings. As serving on the Board is as a volunteer, I am very appreciative of your own volunteer work and commitments. I hope that your upcoming community event is a huge success. As you know, communities are only enhanced by the hard work of volunteers.
As for the meeting itself, Greg is spot on of his assessment of the dialog. While there is obviously still more work to do, the dialog when tremendous until the very end of the meeting. And that disruption was really due to one person inciting others, in my opinion. It clearly was not representative of the larger audience in attendance.
I had no choice but to suspend public comment until the next meeting as the disruption made it impossible to continue with meaningful input from all sides. The meeting was nearly three hours old at the disruption point so I think everyone was just getting a little tired at that late hour.
My goal is to have those people who were still waiting to speak to go first next time if possible. Some folks gave me their names after the meetings and I also received a couple email requests today.
Mike Neiffer
Thanks for the clarification Mike.
Greg, I never said I was the point person for a Pro Centers approach. I am not sure where you gathered that information from. I am helping provide information to others as I find it.
As for my other comments Greg; I do not feel I critiqued others at all. I merely stated some opinions and did not speak about anyone but about humans in general. I do sincerely apologized if I offended you.
I am citing the fact that you created the Facebook page called redistricting informational site, are quoted in at least one article as being PRO centers and replying on every article regarding this as if it is the ONLY way to go.
In my opinion, you set yourself up as the point person for Pro Centers.
You inferred about a specific situation and although the wording is generalized, openly critiqued a situation without witnessing
Why are you so concerned about what this will do to taxes and not how this will enhance the education of our kids? Children should not be forced into this experiment with only 4 months to look at the issues. There is more to this getting passed than we are being told.
Greg – While I understand your opinions, I do not agree with them. I will not get into a debate with you. However, I will clarify a few things for everyone.
1. I never put myself as a point person. I voiced my opinion based on my own research and thoughts. I would be wrong to assume that you are heading up a group then too since you comment frequently as well. Assumptions do not make one correct.
2. I did create a site for informational purposes only. It is not for one side or another; but there are a few individuals who continue to think it is and will continue to try and incite me and try to forcefully change my mind and others. As a human being and an American I have a right to my free speech.
3. Actually if you read all of my responses to the redistricting, taxes rarely come up. I have added that a centers approach would more effectively distribute resources allowing for our taxes to remain low. I have never used that as a main concern, so I would appreciate it if you could get that fact straight prior to trying to reiterate it.
4. Greg, I have said to my friends and many other Pottsgrove parents and teachers that everyone is entitled to their opinion and to voice it. What I do not appreciate is the lack of respectfully voicing an opinion and behaving like ones opinion is the only way to go. I have friends that are for centers and those that are not. But I would never tell them that they are wrong. They are allowed to think on their own.
5. In my first comment on this post, I stated something that a friend of mine said who actually went to the meeting. I will quote it here for you “Also, as a friend stated “It is good to be passionate about something; but that needs to be balanced with politeness. I believe many in the district are forgetting their manners; remember that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar”.” So I actually did not critique anyone; I repeated something that was from a person who was at the meeting.
Greg, I have been very pleasant to you and others who have a different opinion than I do because I feel it is the right thing to do. I only wish that others would do the same for me. As the platinum rule says “Treat others the way they want to be treated”.
Thank you for reading my comments. I appreciate other opinions on any subject; it’s what makes the world go round.